LawClinic.TV

The Process is the Punishment

In this clip I start from the title of Malcolm Feeley's classic study of the lower criminal courts, The Process is the Punishment.  First published in 1979, the book remains a defining text for anyone interested in how minor crimes are treated in America's courts.   It captures a central truth for most of the clients we represent in Fordham's Criminal Defense Clinic.  Whatever happens in the case, most of our clients receive their punishment before their case is resolved.  The night they spend in jail before their arraignment is likely to be the only jail time that results from the case.   Their repeated court appearances are likely to be all the contact they will have with the court, as so many of the cases are eventually dismissed or resolved with dispositions that result in no formal sanction.

Although I don't say this in the clip, I am not sure it is a bad thing that there is frequently no punishment beyond the process of resolving the case.  Some data suggests that almost all the crime control benefits of the enforcement of minor crimes (to the degree there are crime control benefits) come from arrest, with conviction and sanctions flowing from conviction adding very little, if anything.  In this era of serious collateral consequences, when people can lose their jobs, apartments or immigration status after conviction of a minor offense, letting the process be the punishment may make for more proportionate and effective punishment.

But as I go on to note in the clip, the punishment exacted by the process can be very onerous and seem illegitimate.  So many of our clients could receive a summons and a predictable sanction could flow from that summons, but that is not how it is done in New York City.  Many folks spend the night in jail after a minor transgression, which can shift the focus from their transgression to the system's overreaction.  From a teaching standpoint, there is much to be learned from the highly charged hours my students spend with their new clients, soon after their arrest.  From the policy perspective, I am not sure it is the best way to run a criminal justice system.

-- Ian Weinstein

Fordham, Law School, Clinical Legal Education, Law Clinic, Pro Bono Work, Legal Education, Legal Pedagogy, Teaching Law, Student Lawyers, Law Student

Professor Ian’s Approach to Teaching

I think this very nicely constructed clip will give you a sense of how I approach clinical teaching at the law school.  I offer some thoughts about how students feel about clinical education and you see a bit of a clinic seminar class in which we are working with a simulation of a suppression hearing. 

I used to think of clinical teaching as primarily focused on things I had that I was trying to pass on to my students, whether it was knowledge or modes of analysis.  Over time, I have come to think of teaching more as an opportunity to accompany really talented people on a journey that I know will move and change them. I do not aspire to just go along for the ride - I mean to be a guide, and help my students get the most out of the experience they can. 

Of course my job is made easier by the inherent excitement of the experiences we share, but it is also made harder by the high expectations we share for the clinic.  I also teach non-clinical classes at Fordham Law School as you can see.  I want all of my students to grow and remember their time with me, but I know that not every classroom experience speaks to every student.  I also know that the clinic is not transformative for every student, but in my heart, I admit I think it should be.

-- Ian Weinstein   

Fordham, Law School, Clinical Legal Education, Law Clinic,  Legal Education, Legal Pedagogy, Teaching Law 

How We Handle Cases That Are Not Resolved in One Semester

Here are Philip Wells and Doug Cuthbertson talking about one of the big challenges of running a one semester law clinic. 

We switched from mostly two semester clinics to mostly one semester clinics some years ago, a choice we made so we could offer a clinical experience to more students at the law school. 

I think it was, and is, the right choice.  It keeps students on the steep part of the learning curve and permits them to get a broader legal education, but as Doug and Phil note, most of our cases are not resolved in one semester.  That means that clients usually work with at least two teams of students. 

We are always concerned about the transition from one team to another.  We need to be sure that the first team fully documents the case and there is always the need for the second team to establish the relationship anew.  Of course the faculty are a constant, so we really are not starting from scratch and experience tells me that clients understand the transition and very rarely have a problem with it, but it is an issue for us.

-- Ian Weinstein

Fordham, Law School, Clinical Legal Education, Law Clinic, Pro Bono Work, Legal Education, Legal Pedagogy, Teaching Law, Student Lawyers, Law Student

Who's Who at Law Clinic TV

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One of the great pleasures of teaching in our law clinic is that every semester I meet a new group of wonderful people. In this clip you meet Cheryl Thill, Douglas Cuthbertson, Ilana Friedman and Phillip Wells, all of whom are enrolled in the Fordham Criminal Defense Clinic this semester. 

I think the clip conveys a bit of how interesting, insightful and smart they are and I can vouch for the fact that they are great to work with.  I can also assure you that my praise for them is not just my effort to validate a choice I might have made to let them into my clinic. 

Enrollment in the Criminal Defense Clinic is open to any Fordham Law student who has completed their first year at the law school and who has also taken our Fundamental Lawyering Skills course.  We give priority to third years over second years and we also favor those who may have applied in previous semesters over those who did not.  Although some students may have to wait a semester for a space to open up, most everyone who wants to take our clinic will have the opportunity in the course of their time at the Law School. 

I am just lucky to have great students.

-- Ian Weinstein

Fordham, Law School, Clinical Legal Education, Law Clinic, Pro Bono Work, Legal Education, Legal Pedagogy, Teaching Law, Student Lawyers, Law Student

Contacts and Context - The Bonds That Make for Memory

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I have been thinking lately about the power of experiential learning as I have been finishing an article that will soon be published in the Clinical Law Review, “Teaching Reflective Lawyering in a Small Case Litigation Clinic: A Love Letter to my Clinic.” I have tried to describe how the shared experience of a clinical semester helps my students develop a complex, nuanced and deeply moral model of lawyerly problem solving.

I think the relationships my students develop with their clients and with each other, are a very important part of the process. When it works well, reflection on the professional aspects of those relationships is at the core of the clinical experience. I think that is how I refined my professional interpersonal skills and I think that is part of the reason why the friendships formed in clinics and other active contexts are often deeper and more long lasting than other law school friendships. That is what I hear in the comments of Sara Upton and Gina DelChiaro in this clip.

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In this clip, Gina DelChiaro talks about how her clinical experience came up in interviews and was one of the things that gave her a foothold when she first started work. Both those observations hold true for many people and reflect an important feature of clinical education. Clinics present us with the kinds of real, complex and textured situations that confront lawyers. Interviewers often ask about experience with real problems so they can listen to whether the interviewee "sounds like a lawyer" -- one of those “I am not sure I can define it, but I know it when I hear it” sort of things.

I hope this will motivate the thought I am offering: Complex lawyering situations are analyzable into simpler constituent parts or elements, as we often call them in the law.

For example, a client will present a problem that requires analysis of a statute, understanding the client's goals and helping the client make a decision. The classroom can provide a good setting in which to learn to analyze a statute and also think about client autonomy and the process of decision making. But the clinic is the place where you can put those elements together and see how the whole, complex, interdependent process fits together.

The whole is definitely more than the sum of its parts and, in my experience, good lawyers add the most value through their higher order problem solving skills - the process of putting all the pieces together.

For me, that higher order integration has always had a strong intuitive feel; I either see the whole or I don't and while I have spent a lot of time thinking about that process, I still find it powerful and a bit mysterious. But I usually recognize that skill when I hear others exercise it and I also derive real comfort from the feeling of having a complex situation fall into a discernible pattern or present a recognizable path.

-- Ian Weinstein 

Fordham, Law School, Clinical Legal Education, Law Clinic, Pro Bono Work, Legal Education, Legal Pedagogy, Teaching Law, Student Lawyers, Law Student, Experiential Learning

Fordham Centenial Honors John Feerick

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This is Fordham's Centennial year.  As part of our celebration our current Dean, William Treanor, wanted to honor his predecessor, John Feerick.  Thinking about John's commitment to social justice and his long experience with alternative dispute resolution, Dean Treanor came up with the idea of a center at the law school through which John could build on his work on behalf of homeless New Yorkers and address significant urban social justice issues.  This idea became the Feerick Center for Social Justice and Dispute Resolution.  This center will focus on one or two significant urban social justice issues at a time and bring all the stakeholders together to find common ground.  Knowing John as I do, I know this initiative will achieve wonderful things in ways I lack the imagination to forecast.

-- Ian Weinstein

Fordham, Law School, Clinical Legal Education, Law Clinic, Pro Bono Work, Legal Education, Legal Pedagogy, Teaching Law, Student Lawyers, Law Student, Feerick Center for Social Justice and Dispute Resolution